Notifications
Clear all

Amrita, The Book of Lies & the supreme secret of the O.T

Page 1 / 3

Cronus
(@cronus)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 24
Topic starter  

I'm not initiated to any of the magickal orders of Aleister Crowley. I don't consider myself a Thelemite, atleast not yet, and I'm rather new to reading the work of A.C., so please forgive me if my lack of knowledge makes itself present in this post.

After purchasing a copy of The Book of Lies and reading the Foreword, which quotes his book Confessions:

"[Reuss] said that since I was acquainted with the supreme secret of the Order, I must be allowed the IX° and obligated in regard to it. I protested that I knew no such secret. He said, "But you have printed it in the plainest language." I said that I could not have done so because I did not know it. He went to the bookshelves and, taking out a copy of The Book of Lies, pointed to a passage in the despised chapter. It instantly flashed upon me. The entire symbolism, not only of freemasonry but of many other traditions, blazed upon my spiritual vision. From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity."

I was curious, to say the least, after reading that quote and the 93 chapters of The Book of Lies (not that I completely understand this book, being so new to his work, although I'm still able to appreciate it) as to which chapter he was referring to. I first came across a bio of A.C. on the website Wikipedia, encyclopedia, so I thought I'd read up on any further info they had about The Book of Lies. This is what I got off that site regarding the possible secret chapters:

"readers have suggested various possible chapters that might contain the secret. Wilson points to Chapter 69, "The Way to Succeed—and the Way to Suck Eggs!" Crowley's book De Arte Magica names Chapter 36, "The Star Sapphire"."

I didn't do any further research regarding the secret chapter after reading that.

I recently purchased a copy of the book Amrita: Essays in Magical Rejuvenation off eBay. The very beginning of this book, before you get to the title page, there is a copy of Chapter 18, "Dewdrops." from The Book of Lies... According to the introduction to the book Amrita by Martin P. Starr (the editor of Amrita) he clearly states that Crowley's writings on Occult medicine, particularly Amrita, as being the Central Secret of the O.T.O. and he talks about Crowley becoming a member of the IX° in the Order due to this writing on Occult medicine. It doesn't specifically say so, but I'm assuming that "Dewdrops", which clearly refers to Amrita and the Elixir/Dew of Immortality, is the secret chapter from The Book of Lies which Crowley was referring to?

Since I'm so new to this I'm not sure if what I'm talking about here is common knowledge between those of you who are Thelemites and/or have been reading Crowley for a long period of time, but I thought this as the perfect place to ask. I was suprised that Wikipedia doesn't mention chapter 18 as the secret chapter, only mentioning chapter 36 and 69 as the possibilities. Even the reviews that I've read about The Book of Lies mentions chapter 69.

So, let me know what you think about this!

93


Quote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

An article you may find interesting.

http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2001_02.php


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Dear Cronus

I maybe wrong (but I dont think so)...but, I dont think that anybody here that uses this site would answer this question.

Best Wishes

Charles


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

"[Reuss] said that since I was acquainted with the supreme secret of the Order, I must be allowed the IX° and obligated in regard to it. I protested that I knew no such secret. He said, "But you have printed it in the plainest language." I said that I could not have done so because I did not know it. He went to the bookshelves and, taking out a copy of The Book of Lies, pointed to a passage in the despised chapter. It instantly flashed upon me. The entire symbolism, not only of freemasonry but of many other traditions, blazed upon my spiritual vision. From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity."

In my opinion, this entire statement is a crock of ____ (Re: sigil within Chapter 87)


ReplyQuote
amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 686
 

I dont think that anybody here that uses this site would answer this question

Even if they did that would only give information not understanding. (Actually the information is pretty easy to come by these days...) There is a 'learning curve' involved (or so I believe) that is not susceptible to extreme shortcuts.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Funny, I just posted this earlier today. Please check out my monograph and tell me what you think:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=ddcv4qnn_23c2g92m&hl=en


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

All of the above suggestions are incorrect....although Gold Bricks comes into play. AC is alway eager to flaunt his knowledge and share when asked. His teachings and suggested reading material give all the info necessary to carry this out. It only took me 35 years. Bon voyage


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"barney" wrote:
All of the above suggestions are incorrect....although Gold Bricks comes into play. AC is alway eager to flaunt his knowledge and share when asked. His teachings and suggested reading material give all the info necessary to carry this out. It only took me 35 years. Bon voyage

Barney
I would be interested to hear your opinion on Liber Legis and the Cairo Working.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Secrets? There are none. There are progressive states of unveiling, revealing further understanding of
All, as the lotus is revealed in its blossoming.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

AC, being imperfect, spent so much time over the edge that he lost sight of that edge and could not determine his own limits. He blurred the sharpness dulling the blade and left himself just like the rest of us. Convinced that he alone was right and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others. There is a reason for secrets. The lotus submits to peeling but does not care to be probed. Neuberg would concure.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Yes I concur the cur turned me into a camel by jove!


ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1906
 
"barney" wrote:
He blurred the sharpness dulling the blade and left himself just like the rest of us. Convinced that he alone was right and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others. There is a reason for secrets.

93!

I don't get this sentence fully - maybe it is the language barrier. It sounds like you like to say that AC was wrongly convinced that he was right (in his understanding of the "secret") - or why would you use the word "convinced"? Just for clarification.

I would not go so far to say that all the above posters were wrong.

Love=Law
Lutz


ReplyQuote
Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 

The Supreme Secret of the O.T.O., as I have come to understand it, is a divine communion that is clearly illustrated in Crowley's Gnostic Mass, and explicitly described in the Panarion of Ephiphaneus Vol. 1, orginally written in the 4th Century E.V.

The most intelligent discussion of it I have ever publically experienced is the lecture "The Gnostic Mass and the secret of the 9th Degree" conducted by Lon and Constance Duquette. I highly reccomend attending this lecture if you ever have the opportunity, it is open to all, wether one is an O.T.O. Initiate or not. I further reccomend you create the opportunity for yourself by *booking* the Duquettes to come to your town or city to conduct this lecture/class.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"barney" wrote:
and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others.

This is the funniest statement I think I've ever seen on this site. 😆


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Walterfive" wrote:
The most intelligent discussion of it I have ever publically experienced is the lecture "The Gnostic Mass and the secret of the 9th Degree" conducted by Lon and Constance Duquette. I highly reccomend attending this lecture if you ever have the opportunity, it is open to all, wether on is an O.T.O. Initiate or not.

I concur, Walter! Getting to see that lecture in Dallas was a thought-provoking (as well as side-splitting) experience. I'd love to catch a repeat.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

I thouight that I chose my words carefully. Conveying information was AC's obsession. The double, triple ...meaning in his poetry is an example of his efforts to cram a great deal of info into each poem, word, slant of the letter. Every jot and tittle. The existance of this site is testimony of the fact that despite putting it in the plainest of words, and giving numerous hints, it remains hidden. That's what makes it occult. AC encourages me to reveal his meaning. But first the hints.
1 a passage from a chapter
2 something to insult his readers.
3 less structered than others...scribbled

post responses please
As a note, several years ago while reading the BOL for the umpteenth time, I read the despised chapter and the word "flashed" seems to have been very well chosen becauce that is exactly how I would describe it. aha


ReplyQuote
Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"defile959" wrote:
"Walterfive" wrote:
The most intelligent discussion of it I have ever publically experienced is the lecture "The Gnostic Mass and the secret of the 9th Degree" conducted by Lon and Constance Duquette. I highly reccomend attending this lecture if you ever have the opportunity, it is open to all, wether on is an O.T.O. Initiate or not.

I concur, Walter! Getting to see that lecture in Dallas was a thought-provoking (as well as side-splitting) experience. I'd love to catch a repeat.

You and me both... tape it, or something... Lon & Constance go through so much, you just want to say "slow down! I can't parse all of this! The information rate is hitting critical mass! (You should pardon the pun!)"

"Whatever it is, it's NOT an Apple Pie!" 8)


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"barney" wrote:
I thouight that I chose my words carefully. Conveying information was AC's obsession. The double, triple ...meaning in his poetry is an example of his efforts to cram a great deal of info into each poem, word, slant of the letter. Every jot and tittle. The existance of this site is testimony of the fact that despite putting it in the plainest of words, and giving numerous hints, it remains hidden. That's what makes it occult. AC encourages me to reveal his meaning. But first the hints.
1 a passage from a chapter
2 something to insult his readers.
3 less structered than others...scribbled

post responses please
As a note, several years ago while reading the BOL for the umpteenth time, I read the despised chapter and the word "flashed" seems to have been very well chosen becauce that is exactly how I would describe it. aha

The way to succeed and the way to suck eggs? A sucker is born every minute??

Your point is defeated if you pull a "Crowley" on us..


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Only one guess allowed. maybe we should work backwords.
Premise...The Great Work is evident in human history.
Those who we know shaped humanity practiced the secret.
Which one passage was practiced by: Da vinci Bacon
. Newton ..need I name those you have studied?
If this is the secret of the art, why would it not be filed under
art


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Barney,

You are being exceedingly cryptic but I think we agree that the 9th degree/sex magic answer is a red herring for the kids.

To give the historical answer, the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence.

We dance around in a circle and suppose, but Baphomet sits in the center and knows


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Baphomet deifies one (so-called) secret that dates back to at least the early Christian gnostics as far as I know. Took me about 35 or 36 years ( slow learner) to divine that secret but couldn't say for sure that it is THE secret Crowley refers to or to what others here think it is.

Barney,

You are being exceedingly cryptic

Convinced that he alone was right and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others.

Who is referenced in the last quote, Crowley? When I first read it and thought AC I found it quite amusing. Now I suspect it to be self-revealing.

My take on this is along the lines of the lotus blooming. The only real secret appears to be that there are no secrets. Unless you want to call not understanding something until the light dawns a secret.

I suspect the Reuss story to be a ruse. Would love to see evidence to the contrary. The Reuss ruse allowed AC to rightfully advertise and point out the Book of Lies for what it is ( on one level) - a very advanced set of instructions for practicing sexual alchemy. Gold Bricks indeed. The search for the mysterious secret also generates this kind of interest and attention, obviously.

The 11th degree/ homosexual working also seems a pink herring as far as secrets go.

Nice riddling Barney and h2h and AC. I love a good puzzle.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity.

Why do you think the OTO suddenly became so important?

What service were they to provide?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Uni_Verse" wrote:

From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity.

Why do you think the OTO suddenly became so important?

What service were they to provide?

Here's a hint:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Those of you who have read AC extensively have a bit of him in your writing. His discussion of metaphores as well as his use of literary devices displays the fact that he knew that all words fall short of passing the full meaning intended.
This is such a simple and beautiful command. It is my intention to be revealing. You know AC because he spoke from depths beyoned the roar of the crowd. I am pulling a Crowley. The reason he never revealed the "despised chapter" was a marketing device. He was a true genuis in such matters. That in no way takes away from the importance and significance of said "passage". It can alter history, feed millions, even perform the Great Work. Without it, all hope is .....hopeless. Maybe it is the number of times I read it. A thousand thousand times a thousand thousand. Now it moves through me. The voice of AC. I can't imagine how anyone could think 36 was "scribbled" in a few moments. You should know when AC is musing and when he is straining. I am enjoying the responses but I hope to drag a few more of you into the conversation. I am not so sure that anybody in the OTO grasps it either. I find a great deal of knowledge on the theoretical, but little on the practical. I would have to see a direct line from Reuss to current OHO to decide. Even then, it is a personal thing, and he may have spoken of it to AC without revealing it elsewhere. You can see where knowing is a burden. It is possible that the link was broken. Fortunately we can gather the secret from AC himself. Why do you think he was always on the edge? One step, or a dozen beyond the limit of common sense. Mountaineer...he sought new peaks...why? Because it had not been done. Why? Because no one could or would. Can you cut a baby in half? Probably not, and so that becomes a metaphore for the secret. Would you cut a baby in half? I doubt it. Therefore child sacrifice is a metaphore for the secret. Kennedy said it in his "go to the Moon " speech. Dr. Seuss stated it plainly in an early work.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1779
 

upaya-kaushalya (Skillful means) on the edge of uncertainty doubt leaps from Reuss to The Book of Lies, peering out here with upheaval of credence no doubt


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

That is a thought in the right direction 🙂


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"barney" wrote:
I am not so sure that anybody in the OTO grasps it either. I find a great deal of knowledge on the theoretical, but little on the practical. I would have to see a direct line from Reuss to current OHO to decide.

I just finished a course of Magick with OTO member Lon Milo Duquette and found the theory and praxis well balanced. The fact that you're not able to tell if anyone in the OTO knows the secret of the Great Work leads me to question and doubt your certainty, Barney, that you know this secret. Crowley never went so far beyond the realm of common sense to doubt his findings. See BOL ch 51 and the end of ch. 45

That in no way takes away from the importance and significance of said "passage". It can alter history, feed millions, even perform the Great Work.

Then why hasn't it yet?

The eye of horus link looks like a good clue.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Isnt most stuff in libers Agape, natura and emblems anyway?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Thank you for your indulgence. The secret appears to be safe.


ReplyQuote
amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 686
 

Ahem.

"There are no secrets, you either know it or you don't
Its in front of your noses, you'll believe it or you won't
Follow your instincts, if that's what you want to do
But you gotta do something to get out of the zoo"

etc.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

To give the historical answer, the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted. 8)


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"h2h" wrote:
...the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence.

Yes, this is the Official Party Line that describes the lineage of the "supreme secret" of the Templars (both in the Knights Templar version and the modern Oriental Templar phenomenon).

However, one can also find the exact same "secret" described for everyone's enlightenment in ancient Chinese scrolls, where it falls under the general category of "Taoist Sexual Magic."

Oh my God! - You mean it's an universal secret, not restricted to Knights, Gnostics, Saladin and Sufi Saracens?

Verily! This seems to be the case.

Please note that the "secret" is alluded to, hinted at, veiled in symbol and allegory, and generally described in many of Crowley's writings, especially (more than one chapter of) The Book of Lies, and Agape, et al. But (the sometimes hard to find) Emblems and Mode of Use is the one document that displays the whole deal in the plainest possible language.

"Emblems" is (supposed to be) restricted to members of the IX degree, they having made their own copy immediately after completing that august ceremony. But you know how it is - Some people who stumble upon a copy (without undergoing the ceremony - gasp!) like to nail it up in the marketplace, or even digitally nail it up in cyberspace (www), and then the contemporary Oriental Templars have to run around and claim "copyright violation" and force the offender(s) to hide their display.

After all, how can you have a (semi-)secret Order that is based almost exclusively on a "central secret" that is common knowledge?


ReplyQuote
Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"newneubergOuch" wrote:
Isnt most stuff in libers Agape, natura and emblems anyway?

Perhaps, but what are they to the profane? "For without are dogs and sorcerers and whoremongers and murders and idolators and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Most of us who have studied these mysteries for years, (some of us for decades) don't presume to stand "within the Sanctuary of the Gnosis" although some of us have been fortunate enough to discuss these matters with those who *do*, and in doing so come to a greater (if not perfect) understanding of the mysteries involved.

Anyone with a modicum of research can rattle off a list like you mentioned above. Very few can rightly claim the full knowing of them, and many so-called Thelemites are so hostile to Christianity that the prima facea meanings of these documents will be lost upon them, being objects of contempt, and beneath their consideration (showing that they're not even fit for the message of Liber Librae, let alone Liber Agape), not to mention the subtler meanings that might otherwise be found therein.

That is, presuming that the copies of the Libers listed above that you have access to are true, complete, and correct, and I gather from some unofficial statements I've heard by those in the Sanctuary that there's some debate about the accuracy and completeness of some of these alleged documents as previously published by Mssrs. King and/or Furnee.


ReplyQuote
Palamedes
(@palamedes)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 450
 

IMHO, the 'secret' of sexual (or any other) form of magick (or meditation) does not lie in information of 'how to' but in the ability to 'do' so. Crowley claims that it is not that religion may be reduced to sex, but that sex may be exalted to religion (or some other words to that effect). I am not being clear: what I am trying to say is that 'the secret of sex magick' does not consist of knowledge but of attitude. Can you approach sex as something divine? Can you recognize the sacred in the 'banality' of sexual acts, energies, and fluids? This is, in my opinion, only a different method (beside many others) of realizing that this world is the paradise, that samsara is nirvana. This realization implies, as Zen people often say, the skin, flesh, bone, and marrow. It is an attitude toward existence and a way of being-in-the-world that is not equivalent to the possession of a simple piece of information. Attitude is much more essential requirement. My five cents.


ReplyQuote
Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"Nataraj418" wrote:
"h2h" wrote:
...the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence.

Yes, this is the Official Party Line that describes the lineage of the "supreme secret" of the Templars (both in the Knights Templar version and the modern Oriental Templar phenomenon).

What ridiculous posturing! There is no such "Official Party Line." This, and the rest of your post is merely more thinly veiled Caliphate bashing. 🙄
And I object to it.

The *fact* of the matter is that the Order (or Caliphate, if you will) is now fully and well aware of its 19th Century predecessors in the matter of Sexual Magick, however it's only in the last two or three decades that this history has become known.

Crowley possibly, if indirectly refers to them himself in an available version of Liber Agape mentioning "the glories of Eulis, the stars upon the forheads of the Brothers of Hermetic Light." However this allusion is rather veiled: The book "Eulis!: The History Of Love" was published by Dr. P. B. Randolph in 1874, while the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light was a Georgia based Secret Society in the U.S. that descended from Dr. Randolph's Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, and used Dr. Randolph's theories and techniques.

Here's a quote from the Invisible Basilica of Sabazius website, written by Bishop T. Allen Greenfield-- "Dr. P. B. Randolph is either the author or the key Western transmitter of the core magical teaching of the Ordo Templi Orientis. Either way, the only thing remarkable at this point is why his name did not appear initially among the list of Saints read out in The Gnostic Mass. His elevation to the Order of the Lion by U.S. Grand Lodge of the OTO has done much to redress this omission. His contributions to the core teaching of the Western Magical Tradition are difficult to measure but very substantial--essential, in fact." Now, that's not exactly "ex-cathedra" from the Supreme and Holy King of North America, but it's a HEL of a lot closer to "Official Party Line" than anything *you* can probably dig up. 😀

M'kay?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

The Wound of Amfortas 60 samekh XIV


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"barney" wrote:
The Wound of Amfortas 60 samekh XIV

Interesting. I haven't heard this chapter ever suggested as the one Reuss allegedly pointed to, but it does make some sense.

A big question, then, is whether Reuss' essay "Parsifal and the Secret of the Graal Unveiled" was written before his purported encounter with Crowley, or after. Peter Koenig posted scans of a 1914 handwritten version, but was that the earliest?

Steve


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Assume the position of Tipareth. As the Sun, the truth will dawn on you. All sex magic is just foreplay without this. "Do what thou wilt" is made into lightning. All magic is candle magic if you do not reach beyond your grasp.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

93 Barney,

"barney" wrote:
I am enjoying the responses but I hope to drag a few more of you into the conversation.

Okay. It seems to me, than if anyone practices sex magick, that everyone who practices sex practices magick, although usually unknowingly. What do you think of this line of musing, Barney?

93 93/93
Camlion


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Every act is an act of magick. Anyone here play golf? Pool? Every shot is magick, but when you hold your mouth right, the magick is refined. I find reading 333 as one work takes me through the angst, frustration, prejudice, lust, illumination that AC must have felt upon releasing the work. All the stupid human tricks that we do bring us closer to the Ultimate secret. You know, the one where you are the creator of all reality. Don't tell the Illuminatus that I told you.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Walterfive" wrote:
What ridiculous posturing! There is no such "Official Party Line." This, and the rest of your post is merely more thinly veiled Caliphate bashing. 🙄
And I object to it.

Walterfive,

Nataraj418’s comments on the “Official Party Line” are, more or less, correct:
http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/ota/jgraeb/caliph_or_khalifa.html


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"barney" wrote:
Every act is an act of magick. Anyone here play golf? Pool? Every shot is magick, but when you hold your mouth right, the magick is refined. I find reading 333 as one work takes me through the angst, frustration, prejudice, lust, illumination that AC must have felt upon releasing the work. All the stupid human tricks that we do bring us closer to the Ultimate secret. You know, the one where you are the creator of all reality. Don't tell the Illuminatus that I told you.

Every act is not an act of magick. Every intentional act is an act of magick.

Seems to me that one of the biggest stupid human tricks is this notion of an Ultimate secret.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"zardoz" wrote:
Seems to me that one of the biggest stupid human tricks is this notion of an Ultimate secret.

Of course, you are correct.

But then there's that one true, ultimate secret: It's called: "Developing the ability to transcend the ego and dwell with the angels and the fairies." Well, maybe that's not its real title, but the key phrase is Transcend the Ego.

Only with this component in action will all of the lesser "secrets" be workable.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Nataraj418" wrote:
But then there's that one true, ultimate secret: It's called: "Developing the ability to transcend the ego and dwell with the angels and the fairies." Well, maybe that's not its real title, but the key phrase is Transcend the Ego.

Only with this component in action will all of the lesser "secrets" be workable.

Well said. In the BOL perhaps this component corresponds with NEMO? Some groups call this the 'waking state.'


ReplyQuote
Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"h2h" wrote:
"Walterfive" wrote:
What ridiculous posturing! There is no such "Official Party Line." This, and the rest of your post is merely more thinly veiled Caliphate bashing. 🙄
And I object to it.

Walterfive,

Nataraj418’s comments on the “Official Party Line” are, more or less, correct:
http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/ota/jgraeb/caliph_or_khalifa.html

Exsqueeze me? Are you *seriously* suggesting that Jim Graeb's personal and highly critical opinions of Hymaneus Beta be taken as "official party line?" PUH-LEEZE, baby. 🙄

Don't try and bullshit us. You know perfectly well that in that WHOLE article you referred us to, there's only TWO sentences that are even vaugely on-topic? There they are:

"Now, legend has it that the Knights Templars meet up with a particular Shi'ite sect called the "Assassins" or as we liked to say when McMurty was Caliph,"the "hash hasheens" (See Crowley's "The Hashish Eater"). There is a connection between the Ismaili Gnostics and the Assassins under the leadership of Sal el Din (Saladin), but that takes us too far afield."

Now you *could* have just quoted them. But you had to refer us to a article full of whole lot of Graeb's personal problems, extraneous observations on Islam, and their alleged and make us dig through them instead of simply cutting to the chase. 🙂 That's extraneous and unneccesary. Stick to the point.

And the POINT IS that Natajara418's comments on "the Official Party Line" *are not* correct, and your supposition that

"...the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence"

is at best legend, at worst, pure invention, and in all liklihood myth. Furthermore, the O.T.O. today (or the Caliphate, anyway) claims only a 'spiritual heirdom' from the Templars, not a direct and traceable lineage.

In closing, I repeat T. Bishop Greenfield's quote, because you haven't acknowledged it, and *certainly* haven't refuted it: "Dr. P. B. Randolph is either the author or the key Western transmitter of the core magical teaching of the Ordo Templi Orientis. Either way, the only thing remarkable at this point is why his name did not appear initially among the list of Saints read out in The Gnostic Mass. His elevation to the Order of the Lion by U.S. Grand Lodge of the OTO has done much to redress this omission. His contributions to the core teaching of the Western Magical Tradition are difficult to measure but very substantial--essential, in fact."

Have a nice day.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

93 Zardoz and Nataraj418,

"zardoz" wrote:
"Nataraj418" wrote:
But then there's that one true, ultimate secret: It's called: "Developing the ability to transcend the ego and dwell with the angels and the fairies." Well, maybe that's not its real title, but the key phrase is Transcend the Ego.

Only with this component in action will all of the lesser "secrets" be workable.

Well said. In the BOL perhaps this component corresponds with NEMO? Some groups call this the 'waking state.'

Very well put. There is a very curious minority of those professing "Thelema"* who are determined to cling to the ego at all costs, despite the fact that this ultimately contradicts the message of Thelema and Liber AL. This would be a serious impediment to true magical attainment, IMO.

It seems important to note that AC placed Book Four, part one, 'Mysticism' so as to precede part two, 'Magick - Elementary Theory.' The methods of attaining to 'transcendent experience' are clearly emphasized as essential to magical attainment.

Again, in Liber O, probably AC's most basic treatment on magical practice, he writes in the introduction: "Before entering upon any of these practices, the student should be in good health, and have attained a fair mastery of Asana, Pranayama and Dharana."

It seems clear to me that methods of transcending the common obsessive attachment to the ego are essential to magical attainment.

* I recall that while glancing at little Erwin's weird website I noticed certain descriptions of meditation results, presumably some lesser form of Samadhi such as Dhyana, where the retaining of an attachment to or presence of the ego in consciousness was emphasized, or some such nonsense that would render the entire process useless.

Anyway, yes, a very good point raised in connection with success with the 'secret' of sex magick.

93 93/93
Camlion


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Walterfive" wrote:
"h2h" wrote:
"Walterfive" wrote:
What ridiculous posturing! There is no such "Official Party Line." This, and the rest of your post is merely more thinly veiled Caliphate bashing. 🙄
And I object to it.

Walterfive,

Nataraj418’s comments on the “Official Party Line” are, more or less, correct:
http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/ota/jgraeb/caliph_or_khalifa.html

Exsqueeze me? Are you *seriously* suggesting that Jim Graeb's personal and highly critical opinions of Hymaneus Beta be taken as "official party line?" PUH-LEEZE, baby. 🙄

Don't try and bullshit us. You know perfectly well that in that WHOLE article you referred us to, there's only TWO sentences that are even vaugely on-topic? There they are:

"Now, legend has it that the Knights Templars meet up with a particular Shi'ite sect called the "Assassins" or as we liked to say when McMurty was Caliph,"the "hash hasheens" (See Crowley's "The Hashish Eater"). There is a connection between the Ismaili Gnostics and the Assassins under the leadership of Sal el Din (Saladin), but that takes us too far afield."

Now you *could* have just quoted them. But you had to refer us to a article full of whole lot of Graeb's personal problems, extraneous observations on Islam, and their alleged and make us dig through them instead of simply cutting to the chase. 🙂 That's extraneous and unneccesary. Stick to the point.

And the POINT IS that Natajara418's comments on "the Official Party Line" *are not* correct, and your supposition that

"...the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence"

is at best legend, at worst, pure invention, and in all liklihood myth. Furthermore, the O.T.O. today (or the Caliphate, anyway) claims only a 'spiritual heirdom' from the Templars, not a direct and traceable lineage.

In closing, I repeat T. Bishop Greenfield's quote, because you haven't acknowledged it, and *certainly* haven't refuted it: "Dr. P. B. Randolph is either the author or the key Western transmitter of the core magical teaching of the Ordo Templi Orientis. Either way, the only thing remarkable at this point is why his name did not appear initially among the list of Saints read out in The Gnostic Mass. His elevation to the Order of the Lion by U.S. Grand Lodge of the OTO has done much to redress this omission. His contributions to the core teaching of the Western Magical Tradition are difficult to measure but very substantial--essential, in fact."

Have a nice day.

Walterfive,

I never said Graeb’s comments on HB were the official party line, but you did note the relevant two sentences. Graeb’s “extraneous observations” on Islam were also quite fascinating – especially where he speaks about the Iman and its correspondence in the OTO (Speaking of, HB is an excellent OHO and discussion about the secret of the order should not be construed as criticism of him or the Caliphate.). Do I think the OTO is the direct successor to a secret that was transmitted from Templars and before that from Assassins in an unbroken lineage? No more than the list of saints in the Gnostic Mass.

I ignored the P.B. Randolph reference for a reason. Greenfield is entitled to his opinion, but it doesn't concern me.

Go back to AC’s anecdote on Reuss in the Book of Lies and try to figure out his realization of the importance of the OTO. In any case the incident strikes me as a characteristic AC “signature”.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

93 Camlion,

One magical aspect of ego identification gets illustrated in Ch. 27.

Can't really fully love with ego - see the next chapter 28 which seems a beautiful illustration of a waking state - egolessness, the exact opposite of the preceding chapter.

Love destroyeth self, uniting self with that which is
not-self, so that Love breedeth All and None in
One.

In any case the incident strikes me as a characteristic AC “signature”.

I agree. It bears some similarities with the Cairo Working. Crowley seemingly encounters higher authorities in both instances that verify his work.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

93 Zardoz

"zardoz" wrote:
One magical aspect of ego identification gets illustrated in Ch. 27.

Can't really fully love with ego - see the next chapter 28 which seems a beautiful illustration of a waking state - egolessness, the exact opposite of the preceding chapter.

Love destroyeth self, uniting self with that which is
not-self, so that Love breedeth All and None in
One.

For the sake of balanced perspective, I should note that I am certainly not 'anti-ego.' I value mine as much as I do my feet. Great for getting me around in many situations, just not suited for all circumstances. In some cases, one must defer to other means. Otherwise, one is definitely limited in one's scope and range. 😉

93 93/93
Camlion


ReplyQuote
Walterfive
(@walterfive)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 856
 
"h2h" wrote:
I never said Graeb’s comments on HB were the official party line, but you did note the relevant two sentences. Graeb’s “extraneous observations” on Islam were also quite fascinating – especially where he speaks about the Iman and its correspondence in the OTO (Speaking of, HB is an excellent OHO and discussion about the secret of the order should not be construed as criticism of him or the Caliphate.)

Well I'm glad to hear you say that. I didn't construe the topic or discussion as critical of him or the Caliphate, but some people have crossed that line in the course of of the discussion, IMNSHO. You found Graeb's observations "fascinating", that's cool. I found them over-analyzed and contrived, but to each his or her own.

"h2h" wrote:
Go back to AC’s anecdote on Reuss in the Book of Lies and try to figure out his realization of the importance of the OTO. In any case the incident strikes me as a characteristic AC “signature”.

Ah, I think I see your point. You're suggesting that it's fictionalized, much like some claim his account of the recieving of the Book of the Law is fictionalized?

Interesting that. A brother was relating to me that he'd heard about the records of a ship's passenger manifest that included Crowley, but the alleged date of it would have meant that Crowley couldn't have possibly have been in Cairo when he claimed to have recieved the Book of the Law; but that researchers who'd tried to locate the document in question hadn't been able to find it...

And a correspondent was speculating to me that Crowley looks impossibly young in that photo of him with the Stele... that it looked like the picture had to have been taken prior to 1904... interesting... But I don't know the history of that photo... who took it, the date it was taken, where's the original, etc.


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 3
Share: