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Amrita, The Book of Lies & the supreme secret of the O.T

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 Anonymous
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"Cronus" wrote:
I started this thread years ago. Today I thought I'd check back on it after recently hearing about the release of Damien Echol's, but I digress..

After looking back over the replies I got from this post, it makes me wonder if you self proclaimed Thelemites even know the "supreme secret of the O.T.O"or if you all just play aloof thinking you're special.

Who really wants a personalized roadmap to their life or should I say "true will" anyways?

I think the best post was 3 years ago above stating it was a misnomer, being neither supreme nor a secret.

There's a big hint in the phrase "the supreme secret of the OTO".. since the OTO is a social body concerned with mundane aims (socialization, fraternity, morals, ethics, etc.) and preparing the groundwork for higher aims. Thus any "big secret" at the end of THAT long road (whether AC ever intended the oto journey to take as much time and money than it ended up doing is questionable) isn't exactly going to be delivering anyone into liberation or going along the higher aims of bodies like the AA etc. (Note the OTO is always advertised as being in service to the AA).

Someone mentioned nobody in the oto will be talking about this "secret" since they are sworn to secrecy (hmm).. well, it is more due to the fact that less than one percent of oto members ever "formally" get the secret handed to them.. most would run out of funds or time or patience well before that event.. which is probably a good thing, since it would end up becoming the "supreme setback" or "amazing anticlimax".

But back to the 3-years-later comment above by Cronus linking the secret with Thelemites.. apart from being of very secondary consideration, I can't see what Themelites would actually gain by knowing / practicing the "supreme secret of the oto", or how it relates to objectives of Thelema? It doesn't seem to have delivered the goods (in any sense materially or spiritually) for the oto over the last century in any case..


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Shiva
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"zazenji" wrote:
Someone mentioned nobody in the oto will be talking about this "secret" since they are sworn to secrecy (hmm).. well, it is more due to the fact that less than one percent of oto members ever "formally" get the secret handed to them.. most would run out of funds or time or patience well before that event.. which is probably a good thing, since it would end up becoming the "supreme setback" or "amazing anticlimax".

No, it is more due to the fact that virtually ANY Oriental Templar, even of the 0* or the IV* or the VI* or any other degree, can (and probably has) figured out the "secret" by the methods listed (over and over again) above in this thread.

Google is the outer order of the Borg, but it also allows any user (even one of limited intelligence) to seek out and pin down these things.

Oriental Templars are sworn to secrecy from the beginning of their journey and virtually ANY of them has surely figured out the "secret." Now it is true that few (very few) will actually "earn" or "arrive at" the formal IX*, but all the rest of the Knights and Damsels (of lesser degrees) will not be talking either. Even those who walk away, or are expelled (expellation is like excommunication) are unlikely to be disclosing much in this area.

It might also be worth considering that a IX* was ("was" - as in "used to be" - the past tense) a co-owner of the Order and its goods and goodies. Now ("now - as in "today" - the present tense), the Order is a non-profit corporation, and so nobody gets to "own" anything.

"zazenji" wrote:
I can't see what Themelites would actually gain by knowing / practicing the "supreme secret of the oto", or how it relates to objectives of Thelema? It doesn't seem to have delivered the goods (in any sense materially or spiritually) for the oto over the last century in any case..

This is correct in many dimensions.

"Knowing" the secret is easy for any Thelemite. Read this thread three times and you will be "in the know."

"Practicing" this art (and gaining any result thereby) is subject to the skills of the individual participants, and has absolutely nothing to do with the "degree" they formally hold. Read this thread three times and you will see that "this is so."

We really don't know if "the goods have been delivered" to (or by) any given individual or any group or sub-group. If you mean "the organization has risen to full power and influence equal to the Roman Catholic Church or Islam," you are correct. But, by what standard can anyone judge the "goods" of another? Their bank account? I don't think so.

But, by what standard can anyone judge the "spiritual state" of another? Their light? I think so, yes.


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k4n3
 k4n3
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found at: http://gmkelly.com/culling.html

[Moderator's Note: Lengthy extract from G M Kelly's was posted here by k4n3 and has been removed for copyright reasons.]


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 Anonymous
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"k4n3" wrote:
found at: http://gmkelly.com/culling.html
NOTE: Whatever the immediate purpose of the rite is, it should always be for the ultimate purpose of obtaining the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, and the eventual Union with one's Angel, and, naturally, the accomplishment of one's True Will. Anything else will most surely lead to the aspirant leaving the True Path and becoming a black magician, or even, be that magician so unlucky, one with the Black Brotherhood.

It always strikes me as strange that if the above is the 'ultimate purpose', then why not aim at this directly, rather than indulge in years of work and effort on a project with very tenuous links, in the hope that it might one day lead to the ultimate goal..


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k4n3
 k4n3
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"zazenji" wrote:
It always strikes me as strange that if the above is the 'ultimate purpose', then why not aim at this directly, rather than indulge in years of work and effort on a project with very tenuous links, in the hope that it might one day lead to the ultimate goal..

i think you have misunderstood that note.
it only implies that Sex Magick like every intentional act in a Thelemite's life should be done with the purpose of achieving the K&C of the HGA and eventual accomplishment of his/her True Will.
of course, you might reach that 'ultimate goal' while never practicing Sex Magick at all. Sex Magick is not a means of accomplishing 'ultimate goal' but rather the author hints that it, like everything else you do, should be done with that purpose in mind, else it is just black magic, as Crowley himself used to describe it.


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amadan-De
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"k4n3" wrote:
Sex Magick like every intentional act in a Thelemite's life should be done with the purpose of achieving the K&C of the HGA and eventual accomplishment of his/her True Will.
of course, you might reach that 'ultimate goal' while never practicing Sex Magick at all . Sex Magick is not a means of accomplishing 'ultimate goal' but rather the author hints that it, like everything else you do, should be done with that purpose in mind, else it is just black magic, as Crowley himself used to describe it.

(Emphasis added)

So not the Supreme Secret then? Better tell them.


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Shiva
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"k4n3" wrote:
"What are the secrets of "Sex Magick"?

You have revealed the innermost secret of our Order, and you should report to Central HQ Lodge for formal initiation and to take the obligatory oath of secrecy, but you have merely quoted Culling who told a good tale (even as HE was under that same obligation but didn't care) while mixing a few things up to obscure what is really going on.

So don't bother dropping by Cental HQ Lodge. Try Kelly's Lodge instead.


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Shiva
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"zazenji" wrote:
It always strikes me as strange that if the above is the 'ultimate purpose', then why not aim at this directly, rather than ...

This is not the "ultimate purpose." It is a poor man's version of the "ultimate secret." The "ultimate purpose" is to eliminate one's ego.

On a completely different note, it seems like the general level of commentary is shifting towards postings by (relatively) new members, who are welcome, but who wants to go back to kindergarden?


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 Anonymous
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With the ego eliminated, the ultimate purpose is to aid the spiritual evolution of humanity which ultimately is accomplishing your true will and the least resistant means to this end is magick.


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k4n3
 k4n3
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"Shiva" wrote:
You have revealed the innermost secret of our Order, and you should report to Central HQ Lodge for formal initiation and to take the obligatory oath of secrecy, but you have merely quoted Culling who told a good tale (even as HE was under that same obligation but didn't care) while mixing a few things up to obscure what is really going on.

So don't bother dropping by Cental HQ Lodge. Try Kelly's Lodge instead.

i hope you are joking. i didn't think that having mere knowledge about something is enough to be initiated. thought the experience must be on all levels, so to speak, to claim initiation.

also, you have attributed the aforementioned quotation to Culling, while those are Kelly's words.
as far as i know Kelly never did and does not run an order/lodge/etc. for reasons not for the topic of this thread.

"Shiva" wrote:
but who wants to go back to kindergarden?

i wonder what you mean by that?
on the other hand, i heard a good saying that "an adept is childlike, and an inept is just childish."


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Shiva
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On the other hand, my point having been made, I think I'll just go on vavation now.


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lashtal
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Moderator's Note

k4n3: For copyright reasons, I have edited your post above to remove the lengthy extracted copy-pasted here from Kelly's site. Please read the Guidelines.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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k4n3
 k4n3
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to moderator:

could you please kindly inform me what and whose copyrights i have violated?

i also wonder why this link has been deleted ( http://gmkelly.com/qvph.html) in my first post as well. the contents also violate someone's copyrights?
if you could clearly explain the whys of this restriction i would greatly appreciate it.


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lashtal
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Copy-pasting lengthy sections from one site to another is fine provided you indicate that the copyright owner (usually the author) has approved its reproduction. Your post gave no such indication. As a result, the content of your post was deleted, taking the link you mention with it.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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k4n3
 k4n3
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thank you for your explanation. that was a very tricky way of finding the reason to remove the information about so called Supreme Secret i posted.

very insightful.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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k4n3,
So you think that your post was censored because you posted the Secret? You just copied and pasted something from G.M. Kelley's site (very, very lazy on your part) and its copyrighted, simple as that. Reading the Guidelines would be "very insightful" too..... 🙄


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 Anonymous
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ome suggestions:

"the spirit came over me, and I scribbled the chapter down by the light of a farthing dip": maybe this is a hint?

In Hindu culture "Shiva...is worshipped in the form of a Jyotirlingam or "Lingam (pillar) of light." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirlinga
see also this interesting article where this worship is described: http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/shivalinga/

Theodor Reuss'1906 book is entitled "Lingam-Yoni oder die Mysterien des Geschlechts-Kultus" (Lingam-Yoni or the mysteries of the sex cult)!

amd we have a chapter called "Windlestraws" where the words secret, light and phallus appear.

Also a certain "pillar of light" may be mentioned in the following "The Glow-worm":

"Cast down through The Abyss is the Light, the Rosy
Cross, the rapture of Union that destroys, that is
The Way. The Rosy Cross is the Ambassador of Pan."

In the comment Crowley states: "The Glow-Worm" may perhaps be translated as "a little light in the darkness", though there may be a subtle reference to the nature of that light."

The "light pillar" is mentioned quite clearly in this chapter it feels to me.

"Skidoo" tells us: O is the Yoni;T, the Lingam; and U, the Hierophant; the 5th card of the Tarot, the Pentagram. It is thus practically identical with IAO.
The Hierophant must be the practicioner.

Again, on light and phallus in chapter 31: The number 31 refers to the Hebrew word LA, which means "not". A new character is now introduce under the title of IT, I being the secret, and T being the manifested, phallus. This is, however, only one aspect of IT, which may perhaps be defined as the Ultimate Reality. IT is apparently a more exalted thing than THAT. This chapter should be compared with Chapter 11" (being the above mentioned chapter about the Glow-worm pillar of light) "The reason is situated in Daath, which corresponds the the throat in human anatomy. Hence the title of the chapter, "The Garotte"."

Again and again, this theme of "forcing down light" from above through the Abyss into the material "darkness" or vessel (into the human body or other things as talismans &c) recurs:
"by forcing the mind to follow, and as far as possible to realise, the language of Beyond the Abyss, the student will succeed in bringing his reason under control.
As soon as the reason is vanquished, the garotte is removed; then the influence of the supernals (Kether, Chokmah, Binah), no longer inhibited by Daath, can descend upon Tiphareth, where the human will is situated, and flood it with the ineffable light."

But this is not a new thought. The Kabbalists among others who see the Great Work as reunion with god in Kether upward through the inner planes (Sephiroth). Like in Eastern philosophy, reunion is more a matter of heightened consciousness.

So I think the secret as a whole may be contained in any one chapter of the Book of Lies 🙂

Or what do you think ?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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(I just wanted to add that I'm no and was never a member of any O.T.O.
So if I may have hit on a tiny part of any secret please blame Mr. Crowley for making it obvious.)


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 Anonymous
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I still don't know if the old Golden Dawn method of 'bringing down light' (which is just a variation of other techniques being around millenia) into a prepared vessel (body/yoni/talisman) is part of the "O.T.O. secret" or not (I guess the latter) I want to ask about the strange image found in ch.87:

(from http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/lies/90.htm)

It reminds me of this seal:


( http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1150)

but the differences and similarities could be the key to the meaning.
The icon is named "sacrifice" but it's composed of the letters S-H-I-T which are easy to make out and reminds one of a certain plate of poop he was served by Leah Hirsig, but that is just a hint and the meaning must be more.

Any ideas? anyone? 🙂


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Shiva
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"Khui" wrote:
... the strange image ... It reminds me of this seal:

( http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1150)

This emblem (in part) is found in the third degree Tibetan Xin empowerment sumbol called "scales of the dragon." Note the egg in the serpent's mouth. Note the apparent pircing of the serpent by the (arrow-spear), right in the middle of thev"S."


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amadan-De
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"Shiva" wrote:
"Khui" wrote:
... the strange image ... It reminds me of this seal:

( http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1150)

This emblem (in part) is found in the third degree Tibetan Xin empowerment sumbol called "scales of the dragon." Note the egg in the serpent's mouth. Note the apparent pircing of the serpent by the (arrow-spear), right in the middle of thev"S."

Did you check the source of the above image Shiva?
According to here (the link Khui provided) that image is a bronze talisman found among the effects of Cagliostro. There is an interesting quote from E. Levi about it which suggests that the serpent pierced by the arrow represents Aleph[/]. They also say that the object in the mouth of the serpent is an apple (it does seem to have a stalk if you look at its lower end). 😉

Like to see the Tibetan symbol you mention - is there perhaps a link to an image?


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Shiva
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"amadan-De" wrote:
Like to see the Tibetan symbol you mention - is there perhaps a link to an image?

Under the Law of the Great HaHa, there is not a chance in hell you can see it without undertaking the first 3 Tibetan Empowerments. Reiki, a lesser-endowed syatem also guards its (similar) symbols, but recalcitrant renrgades have posted their symbols. This is why it is said that Reiki is "losing its punch."

The Xin symbols are still intact - that is, they have not been posted in the marketplace, nor on the wild world web.

I can only say there is a similarity and the sigil is only PART of the Tibetan symbol. Also, there is no "piercing" in the Tibetan symbol - just overlay.


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amadan-De
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"Shiva" wrote:
"amadan-De" wrote:
Like to see the Tibetan symbol you mention - is there perhaps a link to an image?

Under the Law of the Great HaHa, there is not a chance in hell you can see it without undertaking the first 3 Tibetan Empowerments. Reiki, a lesser-endowed syatem also guards its (similar) symbols, but recalcitrant renrgades have posted their symbols. This is why it is said that Reiki is "losing its punch."

The Xin symbols are still intact - that is, they have not been posted in the marketplace, nor on the wild world web.

I can only say there is a similarity and the sigil is only PART of the Tibetan symbol. Also, there is no "piercing" in the Tibetan symbol - just overlay.

OK and understandable.
A very short google shuffle turned up the 'angelfire' site re the Xin Tibetan empowerments so I've satisfied some curiosity.
Mildly surprised at the use of the Chinese term Xin rather than the Tibetan skar ma. Might ask our local Lama how funny he finds that - imagine he'd laugh loud and long but that's history for you 😉


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Shiva
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"amadan-De" wrote:
Mildly surprised at the use of the Chinese term Xin rather than the Tibetan skar ma. Might ask our local Lama how funny he finds that - imagine he'd laugh loud and long but that's history for you 😉

Your Lama can laugh all he wants, they usually do, you know? Mostly, they're happy guys without pretensions.

Let me give you a brief outline. The Contemporary Tibetan-Empowerment System that anciently was called "primordial" and is currently, formally , and legally named "Sirius" or "Sirius Star System" has not been translated directly from the Tibetan. The translation runs backward toward the source.

For your average norteamericano gringo, the systeim is called "Sirius" and it is said to come from Tibet. The term "Sirius Star System" is used when referring to Sirius (an outer transmission) as synchronized with Star System (S.'.S.'.). In the first case, the empoweree does no work. He or she pays a fee and receives a very powerful healing siddhi.

But no work is done. It is passive. To progress past level 3, one must do some work. The "work" is drawn from the curriculum of the A.'.A.'. Thus, the increase in grades will rapidly decline after Level 3. By the way, Level 3 is "the complete package for a healing professional." It it is so strong and so effective, that it makes other healing and tranmutational siddhis pale in comparison. I offer free demostrations at (almost) any time. PM me and make your appointment.

Sirius is known as "The Wolf Star" - A Star in Chinese is "Xin."
Xin (pronounced "Shin"), is merely the free demonstration - the "probabationary" level, for you see, the demo lasts for 48 hours, wherein the subject can heal others and experiment extensively with the energy; then it wears off, unless it is permamently locked in through the 3-minute empowerment ceremony, plus an hour of talk and instruction, none of which matters at all in the quality of the energy.

The site you mentioned says:

This is the Real Thing !
An anglicized, Tibetan-lineage Wang (Empowerment) System

"Anclicized" means stepped down into gringo and limey language. This lineage was delivered to us by a Tibetan Lama, without any Tibetan terminology, except for the words of the 2nd and 3rd degrees.

This stuff is stronger than anything else I have encountered (outside of libationary influence). The invitation and the challenge is wide open. Make it to my front porch and I'll stand & deliver one level of healing energy to anyone, and up to 8 levels of "up" (however far you want to go) to people who appear to be "spritually advanced." You even get a brief aura reading that tells how far "advanced" you really are. It's all free and it takes about five minutes. Add at least 15 minutes of confusion and re-orientation on why the person is here - even before the probationary Xin temporary attunement. Beyond that, it'll be an hour of intense dialog, because everybody want's to know about themselves. Formal empowerements are diffrent and are arranged by appointment. People actually fly-in to Albuquerque to get the first level - usually the first 3 levels in three days - because after that progress need not be in person ever again anymore.

"So what does this have to do with Aleister Crowley?" I hear the silent moderatory (er, majority) silently ponder.

This: Levels I-II-II of the Sirius Empowerment system are correlatable with the three phases of Malkuth known as Birth, Life, and Death. The 4th element, the Etheric Plane, represents the world beyond death and offers an anchor point described as "the sabctuary on the mental plane." Admission to this degree is earned only after performing certain (simple and synthetic) work. In all, there are nine degrees and five veils. Various aspects of the A.'.A.'. curriculum and minor fees apply to each grade and veil.


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amadan-De
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Nice offer but I'm on t'other side of the Atlantic so unlikely to take you up on it at present. 🙂

Oh he's not 'my' Lama but on my meetings with him he was both happy and unpretentious as you say. (Hell on first meeting he was pottering around outside in a totally non-descript overall and happily pointed the rather obscure way to the carpark. Nice man. No wait, that was the original abbot the current one is his brother.) He stays here - it's where Chogyam Trungpa left to go found Naropa (strangely Naropa don't mention this on their site) - lovely place to visit.


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