Special Request: Ca...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Special Request: Can some kind soul here help me find this Crowley prank?

32 Posts
8 Users
9 Likes
536 Views
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Hello everyone, 

I am hoping someone here will know this and have a ready answer. I am trying to locate a literary prank by Crowley from his early days pre liber al vel legis. I am recalling this prank from memory (maybe 25 years ago) so please be patient with me while I describe the prank.

As I remember learning about it in work about Crowley (i thought it was in Eye of the Pyramid, but it isn't) but the prank is ine one of his works, the prank exists in the "footnote" section (I thought it was Knox om Pax, it isn't), where he hides a crude joke in the latin form of the words "piss, shit and cum".

Does anyone recall this? GPT and Google search dry as a bone. 

If anyone can help me find it will be much appreciated!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
Quote
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5384
 

I think you're referring to this:

https://hermetic.com/crowley/collected-works/ii/ambrosii-magi-hortus-rosarum

 

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

many thanks for this, I will dive into it shortly!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@sangewanchuck56 I tried looking this up on GBT4, it could not find any reference to it.  It looks like an amazing work.  Given AI reticence in helping me, can you give me some background on the work?  Why is it considered a prank?  I get the idea that it was translated by a Crowley nom de plume, Christeos Lu ciftius.


   
ReplyQuote
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 863
 

I look forward to Sange Wangchuck's next installment and thank LAShTAL for the answer to Sange's query and the link to AMBROSII MAGI HORTUS ROSARUM

All I want to note is the 13th footnote to that work which goes like this:

"13) Lamed means ox-goad; Aleph, an ox. Lamed Aleph means No, the denial of Aleph Lamed, El, God,."

Well how interesting...and in 1902!

 
 

 


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

Sorry, it is ciftias (Cities)  Christeos (Christains) Lu (famous warrior, light) From the Latin.


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@hadgigegenraum I agree with you.  Often, I find the footnotes to Crowley's work more inciteful than the text itself.  Another example would be the Symonds annotated Magick in Theory & Practice, and Vision & the Voice.


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

Oops, I meant "Insightful" not inciteful. 


   
Alan_OBrien reacted
ReplyQuote
herupakraath
(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 657
 

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

"Lamed means ox-goad; Aleph, an ox. Lamed Aleph means No, the denial of Aleph Lamed, El, God,."

Well how interesting...and in 1902!

"The earliest reference to the word LA and the number 31 in Crowley's writings is found in The Vision & The Voice, a magical working performed in December 1909, which did not involve Jones, and took place only a month after Jones joined Crowley's magical order. The word and number are part of the information received during the skrying of the 7th Aethyr. which includes recognizing the word LA as meaning Not, noting its gematria enumeration 31, and identifying the mathematical relationship that exists between 31 and 93, with the latter value consisting of the Greek enumeration of θελημα.

The earliest mention of 31 as a key in the writings of Crowley is found in The Abuldiz Working, a working that was performed in 1911. Working with Mary Sturges, Crowley learned she had a propensity for seeing visions while intoxicated, resulting in communications between him and an entity named Abuldiz. It was during the first session of questions asked of Sturges that statements were made which suggest Crowley was aware of the qualities of the number 31, and regarded it as a numeric key years before Jones wrote Liber 31.

In the record of the working, Crowley notes that he had Sepher Sephiroth with him at the time, a Hebrew gematria dictionary he compiled and published the following year. During the first hour of the working, Crowley asked questions about his magical order; after asking for a symbol of the order, Sturges, speaking on behalf of Abuldiz, responds with: The key of 31. The odd thing about the statement is the lack of reaction of the part of Crowley. In other communications that involve numbers, Crowley looked the numbers up in Sepher Sephiroth and recorded their meanings, sometimes asking follow-up questions; in the case of 31, he did not, nor did he ask why it was a key. The conclusion follows that Crowley was already aware of the significance of the number 31 and had designated it a key long before Jones did." -- unpublished writings

 


   
ReplyQuote
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 863
 

@herupakraath 

Thanks!

Is that an extract from one of your unpublished writings?


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

@toadstoolwe thanks for helping on this. From memory and what I can recall, I learned of the prank through a critique of Crowley, discussing his early work and highlighting his juvenile and silly "hidden pranks" in text. My understanding was that the actual words in the footnote were in latin, making them unreadable to anyone who did not know latin, and if they did––it would transcribe into "piss, shit, cum" or something close to that.

Basically naughty words, in latin, footnote, pre-1904 is all I got stored in the memory banks.

GPT4 is "up" on Crowley as a literary trickster, however it does not appear to be very informed on early works, only his more notorious.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@sangewanchuck56 Thanks!  My attempts at asking AI were fruitless, as you pointed out.  I kind of got the Latin inside humor with the name of the "author," "Christians great warrior city" Does it mean anything?  Probably not.  But the fact I bothered to look it up seems like I fell for it.  Also, giving it a pedigree of some long, lost manuscript is also pretty funny, because it is believable.  That's what makes a great prank.  Reminds me of the whole "Necronomicon" scam.


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @herupakraath

"The earliest reference to the word LA and the number 31 in Crowley's writings is found in The Vision & The Voice, a magical working performed in December 1909, which did not involve Jones, and took place only a month after Jones joined Crowley's magical order. The word and number are part of the information received during the skrying of the 7th Aethyr. which includes recognizing the word LA as meaning Not, noting its gematria enumeration 31, and identifying the mathematical relationship that exists between 31 and 93, with the latter value consisting of the Greek enumeration of θελημα.

The earliest mention of 31 as a key in the writings of Crowley is found in The Abuldiz Working, a working that was performed in 1911. Working with Mary Sturges, Crowley learned she had a propensity for seeing visions while intoxicated, resulting in communications between him and an entity named Abuldiz. It was during the first session of questions asked of Sturges that statements were made which suggest Crowley was aware of the qualities of the number 31, and regarded it as a numeric key years before Jones wrote Liber 31.

I see two potential scenarios from this, either are equally intriguing.

A Scenario: Crowley was, naturally, deeply immersed in the narrative algorithmic properties of the text, considering its about his own "hero's journey" into the 20th Century. While he may have had some "glimmering" understanding, he may not have had personal confirmation until he experienced a specific narrative event in his life where it was foretold that he would encounter someone to help unlock the key of it all. That confirmation event from his perspective would produce a psychological (thus alchemical) change on his part, when the child emerges, a "parent" emerges at the same time.

What is more interesting is the discovery of 31, 31, 31 three parts of one formula of 93, which is itself "incomplete" as a riddle of Liber al vel Legis. "solve the first half of the equation, leave the second unattacked" is easily an instruction how to discover the missing word in what is a magical spell. An equation in "half" is only problem/solution. Leaving the solution unattacked is the instruction. The solution to the formula of 31 and 31 is another 31, the solution to the "two half" problem is looking at the problem non-dualistically (31, 31, 31) as opposed to dualistically (31, 31).

So Crowley "solves the first half, the problem" while Jones attacked the solution, and delivered it to Crowley without his own effort.

B Scenario: Crowley was perfectly aware he needed to discover someone to "fulfill the prophecy" as he is the author of his own viral marketing genius work, and made some arrangement with Jones to this effect.

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

All I want to note is the 13th footnote to that work which goes like this:

"13) Lamed means ox-goad; Aleph, an ox. Lamed Aleph means No, the denial of Aleph Lamed, El, God,."

Well how interesting...and in 1902!

I have been doing a lot of playing with any mention of "ox" in any form in his work may have been influenced by "boustrophedon" writing and text making––which is surely would be aware of as Cambridge student.

The term derives from the Greek words βοῦς (bous), meaning "ox," and στροφή (strophē), meaning "turn."

It's a method of writing or printing where the direction of the text changes alternatively with each line.

This manner of writing is likened to the pattern of an ox's path when plowing a field, turning at the end of each row to start the next, from right to left and from left to right in alternate lines, i.e. "in some examples the composition of pages is such that they must be read boustrophedon."

"ox-goad and "ox" is essentially decoded as "pen and page" metaphorically, and combined with his footnote, easily interpretted as "no god wrote this pen on page, but I, Crowley the playful imp!"

Sometimes I suspect that the "Holy Books", especially Liber al, were also reflecting back to Crowley dynamics of his own literary and subconscious mind, which was somewhat unparalleled in his time.

His early pre-1904 writing days have been more intriguing to me now more than ever.

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @

That's what makes a great prank.  Reminds me of the whole "Necronomicon" scam.

I think that is the element I have been attempting to make, yes, Crowley was a great prankster, but were those pranks that he played in his past returned back on him by his own subconscious mind (HGA, higher mind, Secret Chiefs, whatever)?

The narrative theme applied here is quite tickling to consider; remember the film Ghost, where the "fake" psychic who tricked and fooled everyone that she was talking to them, then actually begins to talking to a real ghost?

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@sangewanchuck56 Yes.  Cute movie.  I especially like the shadow demons dragging the dead evil ones to their eternal torture.


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@sangewanchuck56 Did Crowley attend Oxford by any chance?


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @

Did Crowley attend Oxford by any chance?

See how accurate a 25 year old memory can be?

Don't ask me. Humans simply cannot be trusted due to this inherent flaw in our mental architectures 😆 

Odd note: In the West, Oxford is considered the first university system since...you guessed it correctly, Buddhism. Buddhism began as a university type system, a college.

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2398
 

Posted by: @

@sangewanchuck56 Did Crowley attend Oxford by any chance?

He was at Cambridge.

 


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@sangewanchuck56 I was just poking fun at the Oxen obsession of Crowley.


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@the_real_simon_iff It was a joke Einstein.


   
ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2398
 

Posted by: @

@the_real_simon_iff It was a joke Einstein.

Sorry, I did not follow. Just saw the last post.

 


   
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7974
 

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Sorry, I did not follow. Just saw the last post.

I just skipped a lot to get towards the end, where it all begins to break down with misunderstood jokes and name calling.

This is a shining example of how quickly one's intentions, office, or mind can fall into the ever-present background of chaos (gas).


   
ReplyQuote
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 863
 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

"boustrophedon"

Sange,

Thanks for the interesting word!

So did you find the prank in AMBROSII MAGI HORTUS ROSARUM ?

That is an interesting way of looking at the half of the equation riddle.

Yes Shiva threads do breakdown very quickly


   
ReplyQuote
(@Anonymous 51639)
Guest
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1126
 

@shiva

Posted by: @shiva

I just skipped a lot to get towards the end, where it all begins to break down with misunderstood jokes and name calling.

 

Referring to someone as an Einstein is hardly name-calling.  Sorry you and RealSimon Iff are such snowflakes.


   
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7974
 

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Yes Shiva threads do breakdown very quickly

Of course they do. This one was quick because it asked, and got "you will be answered." After the Lost Word has been discovered, the candidate is offered food in concert with his brethren - a social event - where gossip, jokes, and slurs are exchanged.

Even those debating threads with many posters that run for 50 pages ... eventually Anicca.

 


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @

@sangewanchuck56 I was just poking fun at the Oxen obsession of Crowley.

🤣 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

So did you find the prank in AMBROSII MAGI HORTUS ROSARUM ?

 

not yet! lots to still catch up on. I couldn't even find the prank in Toadstoolwe's oxford joke, so I may have a deficient prank detection ability at the moment, lol

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2398
 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

So did you find the prank in AMBROSII MAGI HORTUS ROSARUM ?

 

not yet! lots to still catch up on. I couldn't even find the prank in Toadstoolwe's oxford joke, so I may have a deficient prank detection ability at the moment, lol

Oh, I thought Paul gave you everything you need:

Quid Umbratur in Mari = Quim

Adest Rosa Secreta Eros = Arse

Terrae Ultor Anima Terrae = Tuat or Twat

Femina Rapta Inspirat Gaudium = Frig

Puella Urget Sophiam Sodalibus = Puss

Culpa Urbium Nota Terrae = Cunt

Somnium Auri Potabilis = Sap

Pater Jubet: Scientiam Scribe = Piss

There might be more.

Also notable of course for a book written 1901-1903: "So also with the lesser relics; of which are notable only : to the Order, the heart of our Father: to the Book of the Law, his venerable lungspace to serve as a shrine thereunto"

 


   
ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4491
 

As to your last point: AC is using a quite standard bit of Masonic terminology here:

Volume of Sacred Law (VSL) (also known as the Book of the Law) is the Masonic term for whatever religious or philosophical texts are displayed during a Lodge meeting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_of_Sacred_Law


   
ReplyQuote
the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2398
 

Posted by: @ignant666

As to your last point: AC is using a quite standard bit of Masonic terminology here:

Sure, as would every book with a law would be called. I recommend the excellent new edition of The Sword of Song edited and annotated by Richard Kaczynski [sic?] for the many foreshadows of this last work before Liber L was penned. And not only the above mentioned AL concept allegedly found much later.

 


   
ReplyQuote
Sange Wangchuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 538
Topic starter  

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Oh, I thought Paul gave you everything you need:

Quid Umbratur in Mari = Quim

Adest Rosa Secreta Eros = Arse

Terrae Ultor Anima Terrae = Tuat or Twat

Femina Rapta Inspirat Gaudium = Frig

Puella Urget Sophiam Sodalibus = Puss

Culpa Urbium Nota Terrae = Cunt

Somnium Auri Potabilis = Sap

Pater Jubet: Scientiam Scribe = Piss

There might be more.

Sir, you have not disappointed me!

I now officially have everything I need to tell a great story one day.

Someday.

Much appreciation, thank you for your kindness!

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


   
ReplyQuote
Share: