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The value of The Book of Lies.

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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @shiva

If Frater LAShTAL, the Moderator, warns you about on/off topic, or your grammar, you better pay attention, or your clock may be stopped. But if Norma N Joy Conquest (the alter-id of Jamie J Barter) gets on your case, he may have a point (of order), 

It's not so much if I have a point (or case to clamber upon) as that in future you (=Shiva) will come across as a bit of a hip critic hypocrite if/when you take people to task for derailing etc... You'll have effectively been branded as such and abdicated any authority/credibility to act as nice cop/nasty cop by having invoked the hyper-individualistic "don't do as I do, do as I say" clause in the proceedings...

Posted by: @shiva

but he barks without a bite.

We are all barking here but only Paul has the wherewithal to bite if he so choses (though I can't remember any occasion where him ever "warned" anyone persons to do wit their "grammar").

Taking of which (barking and biting) though, I seem to recall your general open invite to visit your dojo/domicile previously under normal circumstances which also involved having to navigate built-in defences such as ferocious guard dogs etc. (Or was that just me!?)

As nobody else seems to be particularly bothered about these things (i.e., derailment) and I am not of a particularly authoritarian bent myself maybe we should just let anarchy rip prevail (- NB: so far as is possible under the unquestionable guidance of the Guidelines of course which must be strickly obeyed & adhered to by all).

Posted by: @shiva

One will be lost in the jungle at night if they do not possess a sense of humor, especially about one's own importance. 

Here, Hear hear, yes - if they do not, one definitely will (be)!

Posted by: @dom

How come you value this book over AL? 

Valuing 333 over 220 (bookwise) is a sure sign of "Post-Thelema" narrow-broad-mindedness as I previously indicated (I believe Wilson #2 <or was it #1?> made this same case point case in point somewhere as well.)

B Joy


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

As nobody else seems to be particularly bothered about these things (i.e., derailment) and I am not of a particularly authoritarian bent myself maybe we should just let anarchy rip prevail

I granted the validity of your point. I spared your life. The new guy wanted a "wee bit more," so a bit more tricked out. I have already promised myself, and now you, that if any wee bits more trickle out, I will personall start, and justify, a new thread.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Valuing 333 over 220 (bookwise) is a sure sign of "Post-Thelema" narrow-broad-mindedness as I previously indicated

Personally, I am stuck in a rut whereby I attempt to maintain a reminding focus on a few concepts that are the goal of all (or most) of our endeavors. Things like Zero, Alignment, Equilibrium, No-mind (linear). Then we have you repeatedly (by your marketing) repeating concept design to belittle other people. The allegory is clear.

PS - About the terrifying vicious dogs, the biggest universal joke of 2020, the first year of the great pandemic, their true natures were revealed here and Tiger even posted a pic of the two of them to prove the point. Maybe you missed the portrait.

Ignant has a Pit Bull. Sneaking in to his place is what you need to worry about.

Returning to Home Base, it is my recommendation that any student of the Crowley mysteries should read Liber 333. There are also other Libers that I hold valuable and would recommend. But what of the advanced practitioner?

What was it Leary said? "It's all bullshit!" How uncouth. Frater Aquarius put it couthly: "Every initiate has to burn his books at a certain point."

I have not burned a Book of Lies yet ... but I did sell one away. I have a digital copy on my computers, so I can get to it if I need it, because some anal-itic person wants proof that Crowley ever wrote any such thing.

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @shiva

... Then we have you repeatedly (by your marketing) repeating concept design to belittle other people. The allegory is clear.

Not sure what you mean by this (that is,if you're referring to (be)little me <i.e., me>, here).  Please clarify.

Posted by: @shiva

PS - About the terrifying vicious dogs, the biggest universal joke of 2020, the first year of the great pandemic, their true natures were revealed here and Tiger even posted a pic of the two of them to prove the point. Maybe you missed the portrait

No, I remember it (them) well.  Cute little hounds, too!  (There was something about the need to offer up passwords (grips?) too.  No doubt, unseriously humorously intended!...)

N Joy


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

There was something about the need to offer up passwords

There are two distinct scenarios ...

(1) I have (had - past tense) as standing invitation, printed in some of my books, for any samurai to drop by the dojo, or any reader to drop by the domicile, either for pseudo-combat or chatting. This is obviously out-of-date, for the dojo is closed and the abode restricted. If a wandering samurai came by, he could possibly be admitted under masked conditions and we could sit on the back porch, maskless, 6.66 feet apart (roughly two metres), and talk in the open air. 

(2) Under war conditions, such as The End of the World, number (1)(above) simply wouldn't do. "Dropping by," by some unfamiliar person, would involve interrogation at gunpoint. There are passwords, grips, and signs, plus some steps. How complex. I agreed to simplify the admission procedure and to accept "Thelema" as a suitable password. So anybody here could get inside before the Indians and the roving marauders got them. But now even that scenario is modified by the viral buggers, and I won't know what to do until the time comes.

The moral of the story is ... It depends (on the circumstances).

 


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4193
 
Posted by: @dom

Does The Book of Lies have any value for you?   If so , is it that you are aesthetically pleased by the imagery and metaphor of the poetry as you would be by work by any other of your favourite poets?  Yes? Could you give me examples of any of your favourite poems not written by Crowley?

If not then perhaps it's the controversial hidden meanings such as edgy drug-experience references or it's sexual double entendres?   On the other hand maybe it's the secrets of initiation found in each chapter for those who know.   Any other reason why you like to read The Book of Lies?  

I enjoy reading The Book of Lies for the sudden shafts of insight that burst through when contemplating the paradoxes. I've studied it on and off for about fifty years now; new insights still arise.

I don't go a bundle on "secrets of initiation"; I don't think there are any.

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @michaelstaley

@dom:

On the other hand maybe it's the secrets of initiation found in each chapter for those who know.   

I don't go a bundle on "secrets of initiation"; I don't think there are any.

That must be because you don't know as much as master dom!

N Joy


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David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @michaelstaley

@dom:

On the other hand maybe it's the secrets of initiation found in each chapter for those who know.   

I don't go a bundle on "secrets of initiation"; I don't think there are any.

That must be because you don't know as much as master dom!

N Joy

Irony

noun
  1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4193
 
Posted by: @dom

Irony

noun
  1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect

Irony's a bit hit and miss to pick up when it's online. I think that Jamie and myself merit being cut some slack here.


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