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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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15/09/2012 11:12 am  

37. Also the mantras and spells; the obeah and the wanga; the work of the wand and the work of the sword; these he shall learn and teach.

I think this passage is the most peculiar in a sense when it comes to the actual practice. I've never thought that it is an actual reference to the African/Jamaican Obeah/folk tradition, but understood in a sense that even the most primitive forms of expression will do just fine.

Your Magical charm pack (Wanga) may consist of chicken bones and animal skulls, but it is as good as nothing if it does not contain the whole Universe.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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15/09/2012 2:47 pm  
"Azidonis" wrote:
"galangal" wrote:
The gentleman who mentions his bad back is a good example with which to illustrate effort. One has to choose practices according to one's inclination and within any unsurpassable physical limitations one might have. But has the gentleman read Liber E?? Particularly the "Supplementary Instruction In Asana"? Doing so makes it clear that a bad back is not a prohibition on learning the necessaries.

My ever-aching minor-scoliosis-affected spine agrees.

Are you seriously asking me if I have read Liber E?  Who here has not read every word in every Eqiunox?  C'mon now. I have put in the effort, tried the positions, and I decided to abandon the practice, at this time. 


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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15/09/2012 3:19 pm  

I can do the God/Throne asana and Corpse asana but its not long before I have to move some.  Were I to take asana as part of an exam, say to advance in the A.'.A.'., for example, then I would fail that particular exercise.  That is okay, right now.  One day I'll get back surgery and hopefully fix my back.  I think I'm far too young to take the chance that back surgery will fuck my back up even worse (I've know more than a few who were as bad or worse off afterwords).  Until then, I just don't do asana.  Now, is that okay with you two?.....geez


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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15/09/2012 3:47 pm  

Oh, and by the way, I did do asana up until four years ago when I became injured.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
15/09/2012 6:11 pm  

I shall leave you all to your ruminations!
Kind regards to everyone.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
15/09/2012 7:43 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
Now, is that okay with you two?.....geez

I was responding strictly to galangal, on the principle of the matter.

He seems to be of the position that if the 'good book' (whichever book that may be) says that we should stand on our heads, with our hands tied behind our backs, our eyes looking upward, toes crunched, while kicking our legs to spin deosil, 1,0001 times a day every day until the end of our days in our to attain, then that's exactly what we should do.

I happen to disagree, hence the initial remark concerning a "book clone".


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4080
15/09/2012 7:48 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
Were I to take asana as part of an exam, say to advance in the A.'.A.'., for example, then I would fail that particular exercise.

Although the "one-hour not spilling a drop" exam is mentioned in the literature, I have never encountered any writing where A.C., or anyone else, actually took that exam and passed (or even failed). Anyone who has evidence to the contrary is invited to respond.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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15/09/2012 8:37 pm  

Azi,

Ah, okay.  I guess I misunderstood.  Excuse my rant then, man.  Sorry 'bout that.

Shiva,

Well, that's interesting.  And good to know, too!


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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15/09/2012 8:49 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"N.O.X" wrote:
Were I to take asana as part of an exam, say to advance in the A.'.A.'., for example, then I would fail that particular exercise.

Although the "one-hour not spilling a drop" exam is mentioned in the literature, I have never encountered any writing where A.C., or anyone else, actually took that exam and passed (or even failed). Anyone who has evidence to the contrary is invited to respond.

In 2001, my then roommate and I began talking about this little test, so we decided to try an experiment for fun. She put a bowl of water filled to the brim on my head, and set the timer for 30 minutes. I sat there, and then the bowl was removed. Didn't try the hour one though.

It would be a great experiment to try in a Buddhist monastery, I'm sure. You know, they have all day meditation sessions, and someone walks around with a stick. If he catches people nodding off, he slaps them on the shoulder with a stick. If someone thinks they are nodding off, they request to get slapped with a stick. At least they are sitting on cushiony pillows while doing it.


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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16/09/2012 4:02 am  

Commenting on his own experience with this particular practice, Lon Milo DuQuette writes: "Yes, I could sit for an ungodly length of time with a teacup filled to the brim balanced on my head without spilling a drop." He goes on to add: "It is an ability for which I have yet to find a need." (from My Life With The Spirtis p.82).  🙂


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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16/09/2012 5:11 am  

I can't comment on the experiences of someone else I do not personally know. But yes, there are records. Maybe not published, but records. I talk from my own experience - literally from when I was a young man, undergoing preliminary training, and I would maybe not choose the same practices now, in these later years. I maybe don't know as much about AC's personal practices. I did try to follow some at his speed once and failed miserably. With asana (if we are still on about that), maybe Bennett didn't insist on the exact diary-keeping that AC developed for his own students. Would it prove anything different if he had?

It will seem strange to some to try such things literally, I know. But it is not to tick things off on a score-chart to get 'grades.' Just as one might say, "How can someone perform double heart bypass surgery in reality! So many things they would have to memorise! Not possible!" Or the feat of Olympic athletes, or marines. It is possible of course, or else no-one would have done it. Many years of serious training are needed to become an Olympic Athlete or a heart surgeon, yet somehow people imagine that exceptional results in a spiritual field require no such dedication?? I disagree. I would be willing to be proved wrong, but I haven't seen it yet personally.

There was one foolish student who choose to do asana as one of his practices. (You will know that Probationers are required to choose certain practices and continue them for one year.) Anyway, after some hurdles, he completes his one year of balancing a saucer of water on his head each day for an hour and proudly triumphs it to his superior. But he had used slightly different postures on alternate days (for some silly reason that I don't recall) and was promptly failed.

There are many roads and relevant skills to be acquired on the way. Regarding asana, as an example, Crowley points out it is necessary to learn to remain absolutely motionless for long periods of time. This, from my experience, is not some silly masonic-type 'test' - simply a statement of facts.

If you do it, the chances are that various very remarkable things will happen. Not in all cases. But in some. When I did it as a probationer many years ago (after many false starts), nothing very remarkable happened. I theorise that the mind is so occupied with 'doing it' that there is little room for real spiritual endeavour or input. Noting my experiences in meditation in years subsequently, the remarkable experiences were after the 40-minute mark. Interesting ones sometimes before then, but not particularly exceptional or remarkable. It seems to be the point where the physical body naturally wants to give up.

This seems to have been observed in other schools too, though less systematically. There is one fairly modern Sikh 'guru' who would harangue his pupils not to move an inch and time them. Similarly I have observed in a certain far east monastery - not the sort where they slap you - that I have only personally witnessed in tantric buddhist schools, though also in the east, but slapping someone who was trying to stay very still would it seems to me be counterproductive. Staying perfectly motionless can open a doorway. I suspect that doing it in the same exact spot and at the same exact time every day for an extended time might also increase the possibilities, but I have not done that myself so cannot scientifically say for sure.

I suspect it is something AC discovered or was taught, not something he 'invented.' He probably wanted to help people by passing it on. Lot of thanks he gets, of course. But somehow something occasionally rubs off.

I am not suggesting anyone else tries this. Or saying you 'should.' Banish the thought! It is not exactly 'fun.' Follow your own path. Work out yourself what AC meant (if you are interested). If you choose to join what you consider to be the Order, stick with it. I am just an interloper here, so no-one is likely to take much notice of me anyway, and neither should you!

Love & kisses. Don't eat all the chocolates at once.  ;D
p.s. I have not tried it with a 'teacup.' I imagine that might be very slightly easier.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4080
16/09/2012 5:15 am  

Azidonis gets a passing grade, but not an A+ because he only did 30 minutes - which is about what I did in the old days [daze]. Lon sez he can do it, but we don't really know. Certainly there are easterners (and western folks too) who can do it. The monks in training at the Shaolin Monastery put one stone bowl (with water) on their head and hold a stone bowl in each hand while standing in the "horse stance." The videp I have of them [in a group] shows a bunch of spilled water and even a dropped bowl or two, but they're doing OK - the time factor was not mentioned in the video.

Nevertheless, I'll bet there are a lotta 5=6's and 7=4's who never passed such a test. Maybe they really didn't earn their 2=9. What about Achad [2=9 and moving up fast] and Phyllis Seckler [5=6, at least, so we hear]? I wonder if they passed the acid-in-the-bowl-on-the head test?

Personally, I never administered this test to anyone. I just say, "If your meditation becomes deep, and you body kicks up and distracts you, then more anana work is called for. In this case, "asana" merely means a position that is "comfortable and easy."


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4080
16/09/2012 11:21 pm  

Just in case you haven't seen the "Shaolin Asana" scene I mentioned, here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYUtWILh6c&feature=youtu.be


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